Re: [Military] US/MIL - Delta Force and the Glock
Released on 2013-11-15 00:00 GMT
| Email-ID | 2678190 |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-13 19:18:37 |
| From | paul.floyd@stratfor.com |
| To | military@stratfor.com |
Re: [Military] US/MIL - Delta Force and the Glock
In my experience, Delta uses whatever sidearm they wish as long as it is
in the arsenal. Some still carry heavily modified 1911s while others carry
the H&K USP .45 or .40, your wide range of Glocks, and even the occasional
Berretta. Shooter preference is a huge mantra over there and they are not
hurting for money and they do not contract through the big army process.
Trying to nail down what Delta is carrying as a troop is impossible
because they carry individually based on their likes and the mission.
On 9/13/11 11:38 AM, Ben Sledge wrote:
Interesting. When I left Bragg back in 2007 they were all running
around with the H&K USP .45 and testing that bad boy out along with a
few of them rocking it overseas. Guess they were going through trial
and error still. Makes sense.
--
BENJAMIN
SLEDGE
Senior Graphic Designer
www.stratfor.com
(e) ben.sledge@stratfor.com
(ph) 512.744.4320
(fx) 512.744.4334
On Sep 13, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Nate Hughes wrote:
Nice find, Marc. Definitely include CT on these sorts of things as
well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marc Lanthemann <marc.lanthemann@stratfor.com>
Sender: military-bounces@stratfor.com
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:24:48 -0500 (CDT)
To: <military@stratfor.com>
ReplyTo: Military AOR <military@stratfor.com>
Subject: [Military] US/MIL - Delta Force and the Glock
Delta Force and the Glock
By Richard
The following e-mail was forwarded to me by Gunner, a fellow blogger
over at Gunner's Journal. Gunner is a 1911 expert and has contacts
with various people who spent some time in the Special Forces
community, including Delta Force.
A lot of what Delta does is understandably secret, and there have been
much debate about the weapons and tactics they use. There have also
been questions about if Delta is still carrying the 1911, or if a
complete swap to Glock pistols had been made. Attached is some
information from someone who has intimate knowledge of Delta's
operations. None of the information is classified and it was ok'd for
publication.
"The Army did drop the 1911 about 3 years ago for the Glock 22 rough
texture frame which was "experimental" at the time. Glock really
didn't know if they were gonna go with it commercially at the time but
since others in the community liked it, they put it on some Gen 4
guns.
There was a down select to the STI 2011 and Glock 22 in .40S&W. The
1911 were costing us way to much per gun to keep them running. Parts,
labor, X-rays, you get the picture. Even when Kentucky (Lexington
Depot) would build a gun, the unit gunsmiths would practically and
literally rebuild the gun for the individual operator during the
training course. There was a contract let years ago for a select
manufacturer to make the frames and slides and several different parts
and barrel manufacturers to make the internals. Much like the
MEU/MARSOC pistols a while ago they just got to expensive.
And we changed the way we shoot. In training Army it was two in the
chest and one in skull if needed. Now, if I give you 1 you are getting
2, if I give you 2 your are getting 5, if you get 5 then you get the
rest of the mag. Plain and simple I am not going to let you get up and
hurt one of my team mates.
And we will put all my shots right across your pelvis and then the
shoulder girdle. I don't care if you got a trauma team on hand, 5
shots across the pelvis and you ain't getting up. The enemy is likely
to wear some kind of armor now a days just as much as we are. 2 in a 3
*5 card ain't cutting it. So there are lots more ammo expended in
training, which effects how well the guns hold up also.
We went through several different down selects for a double stack
auto. The STI did not hold up to OTC and the students did not want to
run their go-no go shooting test with a chance of failing. One Sabre
SQDN got issued both guns and the guys selected to deploy with the
Glocks to Iraq. So that ended the question. Now there is a cornucopia
of 22's, 23's and 27's across that command. We went from the 228 to
the G-19/ G-26 and G-30's.
And I understand the Navy has dropped the Sig and now gone to the HK
(I want to say the) P-30 family in 9mm. I don't know if they are going
to the .40S&W? Air Force STS went to the G-22/23/27 and HK-416 cuz
their Army partners did. Really all of JSOC is following what the Army
Unit does."
This jives with what I have heard from other sources.
While I still teach and train for center mass shots, in the military
context, the pelvic girdle shots do make sense. If you have a
reasonable expectation of encountering an enemy wearing body armor,
you have to train for where the armor is not.
--
Marc Lanthemann
Watch Officer
STRATFOR
+1 609-865-5782
www.stratfor.com
In my experience, Delta uses whatever sidearm they wish as long as it is
in the arsenal. Some still carry heavily modified 1911s while others carry
the H&K USP .45 or .40, your wide range of Glocks, and even the occasional
Berretta. Shooter preference is a huge mantra over there and they are not
hurting for money and they do not contract through the big army process.
Trying to nail down what Delta is carrying as a troop is impossible
because they carry individually based on their likes and the mission.
On 9/13/11 11:38 AM, Ben Sledge wrote:
Interesting. When I left Bragg back in 2007 they were all running
around with the H&K USP .45 and testing that bad boy out along with a
few of them rocking it overseas. Guess they were going through trial
and error still. Makes sense.
--
BENJAMIN
SLEDGE
Senior Graphic Designer
www.stratfor.com
(e) ben.sledge@stratfor.com
(ph) 512.744.4320
(fx) 512.744.4334
On Sep 13, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Nate Hughes wrote:
Nice find, Marc. Definitely include CT on these sorts of things as
well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marc Lanthemann <marc.lanthemann@stratfor.com>
Sender: military-bounces@stratfor.com
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:24:48 -0500 (CDT)
To: <military@stratfor.com>
ReplyTo: Military AOR <military@stratfor.com>
Subject: [Military] US/MIL - Delta Force and the Glock
Delta Force and the Glock
By Richard
The following e-mail was forwarded to me by Gunner, a fellow blogger
over at Gunner's Journal. Gunner is a 1911 expert and has contacts
with various people who spent some time in the Special Forces
community, including Delta Force.
A lot of what Delta does is understandably secret, and there have been
much debate about the weapons and tactics they use. There have also
been questions about if Delta is still carrying the 1911, or if a
complete swap to Glock pistols had been made. Attached is some
information from someone who has intimate knowledge of Delta's
operations. None of the information is classified and it was ok'd for
publication.
"The Army did drop the 1911 about 3 years ago for the Glock 22 rough
texture frame which was "experimental" at the time. Glock really
didn't know if they were gonna go with it commercially at the time but
since others in the community liked it, they put it on some Gen 4
guns.
There was a down select to the STI 2011 and Glock 22 in .40S&W. The
1911 were costing us way to much per gun to keep them running. Parts,
labor, X-rays, you get the picture. Even when Kentucky (Lexington
Depot) would build a gun, the unit gunsmiths would practically and
literally rebuild the gun for the individual operator during the
training course. There was a contract let years ago for a select
manufacturer to make the frames and slides and several different parts
and barrel manufacturers to make the internals. Much like the
MEU/MARSOC pistols a while ago they just got to expensive.
And we changed the way we shoot. In training Army it was two in the
chest and one in skull if needed. Now, if I give you 1 you are getting
2, if I give you 2 your are getting 5, if you get 5 then you get the
rest of the mag. Plain and simple I am not going to let you get up and
hurt one of my team mates.
And we will put all my shots right across your pelvis and then the
shoulder girdle. I don't care if you got a trauma team on hand, 5
shots across the pelvis and you ain't getting up. The enemy is likely
to wear some kind of armor now a days just as much as we are. 2 in a 3
*5 card ain't cutting it. So there are lots more ammo expended in
training, which effects how well the guns hold up also.
We went through several different down selects for a double stack
auto. The STI did not hold up to OTC and the students did not want to
run their go-no go shooting test with a chance of failing. One Sabre
SQDN got issued both guns and the guys selected to deploy with the
Glocks to Iraq. So that ended the question. Now there is a cornucopia
of 22's, 23's and 27's across that command. We went from the 228 to
the G-19/ G-26 and G-30's.
And I understand the Navy has dropped the Sig and now gone to the HK
(I want to say the) P-30 family in 9mm. I don't know if they are going
to the .40S&W? Air Force STS went to the G-22/23/27 and HK-416 cuz
their Army partners did. Really all of JSOC is following what the Army
Unit does."
This jives with what I have heard from other sources.
While I still teach and train for center mass shots, in the military
context, the pelvic girdle shots do make sense. If you have a
reasonable expectation of encountering an enemy wearing body armor,
you have to train for where the armor is not.
--
Marc Lanthemann
Watch Officer
STRATFOR
+1 609-865-5782
www.stratfor.com
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